Not An Island Podcast
Not An Island Podcast
Ep 18. 20% Chance of Survival | Marc & Ima Carnelus' Miraculous Journey
👇 LINKS BELOW!! 👇
Have you ever wondered how love can withstand the test of time and adversity? Join us as we share the inspiring journey of Marcus and Ima Carnelis, a couple whose story embodies faith, resilience, and the unique challenges that come with parenting a child with autism. From their initial friendship in 2006 through church connections and social media platforms to their eventual marriage in 2013, Marcus and Ima's relationship is a testament to the power of patience and shared values. Witness how their bond grew stronger through life's trials, leading them to embrace the unexpected adventure of parenthood.
Experience the emotional highs and lows as Marcus and Ima recount the birth of their son Jackson, who entered the world prematurely at just 22 weeks. Their unwavering faith and determination to give their son a fighting chance shine brightly in their narrative, offering hope to parents facing similar challenges. The episode also explores the complexities of Jackson's autism diagnosis during the pandemic, highlighting the misconceptions and support systems that have played a pivotal role in their journey. Through personal anecdotes and heartfelt reflections, Marcus and Ima provide a beacon of encouragement for families navigating the labyrinth of special needs parenting.
Marcus and Ima also open up about their family life, illustrating the delicate balance of raising a child with special needs while nurturing strong sibling bonds. Their candid discussion on the dynamics between Jackson and his younger sister Cameron sheds light on the importance of individual attention and celebrating each child's uniqueness. Furthermore, the episode touches on the profound impact of parenthood on personal growth and spiritual connection, showcasing how vulnerability and mutual support can fortify relationships. As a special treat, we introduce Ima's book, "Saving my Son: 119 Days of Miracles Behind the NICU Doors," along with their entrepreneurial ventures, offering both inspiration and practical insights into their remarkable journey.
‼️ GO SUPPORT MARC & IMA!! 👇 👇
🛒 10% OFF Brand Ave Clothing (Marc’s business): https://brandaveclothing.com
🛒 Halos & Miracles (Ima’s business): https://halosandmiracles.com
📚 Saving My Son: 119 Days Of Small Miracles Behind The NICU:
https://www.amazon.com/Saving-My-Son-Miracles-Behind/dp/1737834545/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1ZLWA24EI5CIN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.YOzwgpbTZudAPa7umotwSUwC5zGHXr2lN4jGO56GoZjGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.HHUdlFK8CsMRyEVeqltLO0jSEGN0aR1AcX0FMGDI4s4&dib_tag=se&keywords=Ima+Carnelus&qid=1734660704&sprefix=ima+carnelus%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-1
Instagram Links:
@lovemarcb
@imacarnelus
@notanislandpodcast
Be sure to FOLLOW, SHARE, RATE and SUBSCRIBE!
Video Content: https://youtube.com/@notanislandpodcast
Support our podcast: https://www.patreon.com/NotAnIslandPodcast
Contact us at notanislandpodcast@gmail.com
Hey everybody and welcome to yet another episode of Not an Island podcast. I think Marcus was trying to do an intro for us, yeah he had a beat going.
Amanda:I was here for it. I was here for it.
Todd:That was amazing yeah but, as some of you who may be new to our channel, we are a podcast where family, faith and autism meet With. That being said, we have a family who has an incredible story about faith and autism right here with us. This is Marcus and Ima Carnelis. Did I say your last name, right?
Marc:Yes, yes, yes, okay, cool, some people say it wrong. Yeah, yeah.
Amanda:Hey, you know what he did his research.
Amanda:He's like I got to get these ones.
Todd:right, I'm trying to get it right. I'm trying to get it right, but yeah, they have an incredible story. But, yeah, they have an incredible story. I won't steal their thunder or anything, but listen. If you have not checked into their story, you need to. I'll just leave it at that it blessed us so much. Yeah, it blessed our hearts. I guess to kind of get it started.
Todd:We saw Mark and Ima on another podcast, on Tabitha Brown's podcast, and man, it was about an hour in and she gave a word to both of you and I'm telling you I know it broke y'all, but it broke me too, because we've gotten that same word from people before. Just hearing how God chooses us, you know, and I don't know it comes as a badge of honor, but anyway, I'm talking too much. We want to share your guys, we want to share your story. So we'll hand the floor to you guys and let y'all kind of explain your story. If it's all right, we'll just start at the beginning and, yeah, go from there.
Ima:Okay, so as I said I'm Ima my husband I am Marky Marky. We have been married, going on 10 years. It'll be 10 years in April.
Todd:Come on, congratulations.
Ima:Two little ones. Thank you, jackson and Cameron.
Marc:Could have been 18 years, but I'll set up the channel I got, it got it.
Ima:Oh yeah, so we had, we had dated. Uh, well, no, I'm not dating. We went on a date um what was?
Marc:it like 2006. She don't even remember this is where we are. She don't even remember the year Wow.
Ima:I was in my friend's 2007. I had turned 21. Came to my birthday party I had like a 21st birthday and we just remained friends. There was nothing really more. I guess you could say, okay, now.
Amanda:I understand his comment fully.
Marc:It could have been more.
Ima:Yeah, but I kind of put him in the friend zone. I felt like we weren't on the same page when it came to you know me going to church and having a relationship with God Right, and kind of kept me into, you know, growing his faith. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, so for me, I just was like you know that was a kind way to put it Amen, amen.
Todd:We all got a path, bro, we all got a process.
Ima:And so what was funny is like I knew his mom and one of his sisters through church.
Todd:Okay, since I was a little girl like I, grew up with his younger sister, my goodness, and also you had a friend in anyway.
Ima:Yeah, so I met him through his sister, but it just was like you know, we didn't, we didn't really take it too far. He was doing music, I was doing music and it was kind of like, oh, let's kind of work together and stay friends. We stayed friends through social media Facebook, and I don't think Instagram was around at that time, probably not.
Marc:No, you know, it was around AIM.
Ima:Oh, AIM. Yeah, bro.
Todd:MySpace, aim, facebook was a baby at the time chat on aim play it play
Ima:the little away messages, all those little things, um, and then in 2013 is when we kind of like reconnected in a different way. So so, like I said, we were friends on Facebook, but it was his birthday and I commented on, like I told him, you know, happy birthday and commented on the gift that his sister had gotten him, and like we just were exchanging comments, and then he like was like, oh, let's take this to the, you know, direct to the DM, yeah, yeah.
Ima:A little more personal man, yeah, nosy, I guess you could say it was pure clean and fun. But it's just one of those things where it's like, okay, we're having a conversation in common. Let's just take this, so we're private.
Marc:Got it. Yeah, we.
Ima:I think we maybe exchanged updated numbers yeah, updated numbers and then we we talked till like six in the morning it was still just like catching up, but it wasn't like I left at that yeah at that moment it wasn't like oh, this is gonna yeah lead to something else it took.
Ima:It took a little bit of time, um, to kind of build that. You know what I mean, because I was out of a relationship, he was out of a relationship and so starting something new was, you know, it was big and scary and sure, um, but it was something I had prayed for. You know, I wanted to be married, one in the family, and I just was in that space of like all my friends were married.
Ima:Most of them had already had a child and I was the only one like where's my husband? Yeah, he was in my life the whole time.
Marc:One thing I don't want to leave out is that back in 2006, I had a huge crush on this young lady Aww. Back in 2006, I had a huge crush on this young lady aww, yeah. So I think I always, like, had that crush so once we kind of like started talking again 7 years later like I still had like the crush energy yeah, yeah it never went away.
Marc:I always tease her like even to this day, about how, like, when we say, like our son Jackson is like 9, I'm like oh, he could have been like 16 yeah, but she was playing, but I guess we could have had a 15 year old or whatever, but you know that timing is perfect.
Ima:Yes, and keeping meeting, all of the things that you know we went through separately during that time of just kind of being associates to appreciate each other, know how to love each other. Oh, you know, you build character as you're growing up so by the time he and I reconnected it was like okay, he knew what he wanted, I knew what I wanted. And it was one of those things where we felt like now is the time to. I love that. Yeah, and it went pretty quick.
Marc:You know, sidebar, when me and her spoke, that was June 30th, if I recall correctly. Wow, and she'll remember that there was a the job that I was working. There was some young ladies there that was going on like a girls trip to where did it go?
Ima:Palm Springs. We did talk on your birthday, right? Yeah, 13th.
Marc:Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't uh june 30th talk okay, yeah, june 30th was was six, six in the morning talk okay so, uh, probably about a week and a half, maybe two weeks later, all these girls at my job did a girl's trip to Palm Springs, and so me and two other guys were kind of like well, we're going too. It's a public place, you can't say that we can't be there.
Todd:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Fancy seeing y'all here.
Marc:All right you can't say it the guys can't come because that's a public place and we can go out.
Ima:It was monotonic. It was just like coworkers going out.
Marc:I remember we had scheduled to go the guys. We stayed. It was separate. We stayed where we stayed. They stayed at a whole different place. I remember I was looking at it as a test to see how really attached am I to it. I would say I'm going out here single and you know anything can happen.
Marc:you know you're going to clubs and partying, whatever, but all I could think about that whole trip was like getting back home and like seeing her and once I once that, once that trip was over, I was just like that's not normal, like a guy that could have just had like so much fun in this whole trip all. I could think about was her and getting back home. So we got back.
Ima:We were cycling yeah, I think we went to dinner, so that's how I knew like, yeah, and this was two weeks after we were talking. So, remember, we reconnected, so to speak, on his birthday, which is June 13th, so two weeks later, it was just like and I think, because it's funny, we never he never really asked me to be his girlfriend, it was more so just like kind of like this is what we're doing, like I like you, you like me, it's exclusive.
Ima:And so we picked like we made up a date of like our dating anniversary, because we knew it was around that time. So it's. July 20th, so you know, that's pretty fast.
Marc:From connecting to exclusive.
Ima:we dated for a whole year and then he proposed the day after our um one year anniversary and you had to be on anniversary yeah, I thought it was going to be on our anniversary.
Amanda:I did he had to keep you on your toes. Yeah, I had to keep it on my toes, I mean very romantic day we went to.
Ima:I think it was in Newport Beach. We had wine tasting, which we had never done. We rode bikes, we went to the beach and it was on the little boardwalk and you know just people watched in the sand. We ate really good.
Ima:We went to a beautiful romantic restaurant overlooking the whole Newport and I was like, yes, this is going to be because why not? Right, it's the perfect setting. And he did not, and he had to ring and I remember just being like, okay, I thought this was going to happen because you know, made it very clear that we wanted to be intentional, Like we're not just dating to just date Wait, you said wanted to be intentional, Like we're not just dating to just date.
Marc:And Wait, you said what?
Ima:Be intentional.
Marc:Who made it clear.
Ima:We Me you made it clear.
Amanda:Oh, she's like, I'm not playing Like. This is either going to end in marriage or Five years dating?
Marc:Yeah.
Ima:You know we really wanted to do God's way. I didn't want to lose together or anything like that.
Ima:So I just felt like, okay, if we're going to do this, and at that point it was like I love you, you love me. We know this is what we want. Um, we know it's probably not going to be the easiest. You know, I come from my parents divorced when I was six. His parents are still married, so you know just that, like you know, you deal with childhood trauma and things and micro dynamic. Like I've had a lot of trauma he hasn't really had, you know, childhood trauma. So, merging those two lives, it's like, okay, this is, this is a chance to build our own story. Yes, yeah, um, so you know, we went through premarital counseling, which I think is great for everyone I'm an advocate for because it really teaches you how to navigate life as as a married couple and get those tools that you need to get tools because we had no idea what was coming our way.
Ima:Like you know, we had this yeah this whirlwind of way Like you know we had this whirlwind of a romance. We dated you know a year, got engaged, we got married eight months later. I mean, we were moving, life was moving fast, Um, and so I think having like the tools that we got from our counselors was really, really good for us to be helpful, for sure. Yeah, yeah.
Amanda:Yeah, man, wow, I love just hearing y'all's love story. That is so precious, you know it's crazy, it's wild.
Todd:How long was it before you had Jackson that y'all were married? Don't mind me asking.
Marc:We was married. Yeah, it was quick. So we got married April 11, 2015, and he was born in July. Wow.
Ima:So he was due at the end of the year.
Amanda:You guys needed that solid foundation. Yeah, you needed that to prepare you for life.
Ima:It wasn't our plan to get pregnant so soon. You know, and I tell couples now like at least give yourself a year or two to just be married and just do whatever, Like go travel, go to breakfast, like enjoy each other, Because we literally went from newlyweds to parents, and not only parents. Nikki and creamy parents, yeah, Really nothing about. Yeah. It was a world like whirlwind, nikki and creamy parent. Really nothing about.
Todd:Um it was it was a world like whirlwind which I mean, how on earth could you have prepared for a moment like that you know for us for, for a journey like that?
Ima:So yeah, I don't even think we were truly prepared. We literally got thrown into the ring and was like, okay, Truly prepared.
Speaker 4:We literally got thrown into the ring and was like okay, it's here now, so to back up.
Todd:Sorry to interrupt you, so to back up. You're married, y'all get pregnant.
Ima:You have your first child, jackson right. Well, you were pregnant like two months, yeah, On the wedding day.
Amanda:Yeah, we got pregnant before the wedding. Oh my goodness, that was real fast then. That was super fast.
Marc:Yeah super fast.
Ima:Yes, that was not the plan.
Marc:Right.
Todd:It wasn't your plan.
Ima:We got at another plan, that's right, yeah, I was definitely, you know, not happy about that.
Speaker 4:Because you know not happy about that, because you know I'm a Christian girl and trying to do right and all these things.
Amanda:It is hard when you're in love. It is hard.
Ima:And you know that this is your person.
Amanda:Yes, yes.
Ima:And you know. So I had to deal with a lot of the guilt and the shame, like no one thankfully like scrutinized me or anything like that. Good, but internally I'm like is this happening Because you know I got pregnant technically before we were, you know, married and you know feeling like God is punishing me by giving me a baby, all the challenges.
Ima:But you know he's a gracious God so I know that he can feel in our flesh ways or in our mess up, so he feels sovereign. Sorry, my nose is like itchy oh, you're great you're great, and so I think you know going. You know, really, he had to deal with me on that because, yeah, I grew up thinking, you know, in our christian world it's like, oh, if you do this, god's gonna do that, he's gonna punish you, yeah, and so I had to kind of deal with those.
Todd:For sure.
Amanda:And it's like his word says he will chastise those he loves. But I don't believe that he chastised. I don't believe that that was a punishment of God.
Marc:I believe that was the blessing of God even in our weakness, like here he is coming through, but that's the kind of God that he is.
Amanda:But I can relate to you as well as being a mom and being like, what did I do? Because, like, was there something? I've so been there in so many different situations. And God has to rewire our thinking, because I think a lot of our thinking has been based on what someone else said and not what he actually said.
Todd:Not what his word actually says so.
Amanda:I just wanted to throw that in.
Todd:So, going through the story a little bit, then you get married and then you have Jackson prematurely, correct At a pretty young age, or pretty young gestational age. Is that the right way to put it? Yeah, was it 22 weeks correct?
Ima:22 weeks, Yep. So I was right on that cusp of six months. We were planning the baby shower. I was still doing the registry. You know, it was just it was crazy. Just you know had a great job. I'm like career really. I was living the dream Newlywed. You know, everything's like false in the place and he was like yeah, yeah.
Todd:So how did it make you guys feel this is one of the bigger questions I have for this entire interview how did it make you feel or I guess, if you can bring us back to that moment when he, when you first laid eyes on on him, like what and it's okay if it's if it was a hard feeling, you know I think people need to know, if that's the case, but what can you describe, kind of what you felt or what you were going through mentally, through your mind, and in that day and that season, that season when Jackson was born. Yeah.
Marc:So I know you were out of it.
Ima:Yeah, I didn't, you saw him first. Okay, yeah.
Marc:So she was out of it, I know, slightly earlier when they checked her cervix to see how much dilated she was and when it was like go time yeah, yeah yeah, it was like, yeah, you're gonna have this baby um, and I remember, you know, I remember I was.
Marc:I broke down, I called my dad, I was like on the floor, I was just like this is before this is before and I was just like like because I'm just thinking, uh, I don't say ignorantly, but yeah, I just I wasn't aware just what a 22 weeker looks like, like I'll be coming out, like is everything gonna be there is like this is crazy. And so, once they prepared for delivery, I kind of just made the decision like I'm going to roll the camera and just kind of document it. We weren't even like huge, like we weren't doing content.
Ima:That wasn't even like a real thing. Yeah, we weren't really heavy doing content creation. That wasn't even like a real thing. Yeah, we weren't really heavy on content creation I had a crocheting business and so I would post you know about like what I was making and I would post you know like personal stuff. Like you know personal, but it wasn't like 2015.
Marc:So it wasn't a huge content creation. No to share, yeah, being an influencer and all that stuff, so yeah, so I just rode the camera and I remember I took a picture of myself, uh, with the surgical guard and all that stuff and I remember, yeah, emergency check, yeah we went in, she was totally out of it.
Marc:Once they took him out, they just rushed him immediately to the NICU. We have pictures, lots of photos of them taking him to the room they were going to do all the work in there's video that I took of them wires, just wires, yeah, probes everywhere, all things. It was scary and I remember just sitting there and I'm just like, wow, this is a little baby. Oh what a tiny baby. He was 11 inches right, yeah, one pound 2.9 ounces.
Ima:Oh y'all, I can't even imagine. I don't know Like a tiny.
Todd:Like a newborn kitten tiny.
Ima:Like he could fit in our hands literally. His ring could fit around his arm.
Speaker 4:I remember you saying that yes around his arm. I remember you saying that yes, Around his arm.
Ima:So his arm was like it was bigger than his finger.
Marc:You know, it was just surreal you know, he was just kind of like. He was like bruised, his skin was like almost, was kind of like pink.
Ima:Yeah, translucent Almost Eyes were skewed shut eyes skewed shut and yeah, it was.
Marc:Um, it was scary because, like I said, it was a lot of beeps, a lot of wires, people resuscitating and when you look at the video you see everyone is just calm doing their thing, saying out the numbers it's a tuesday for them yeah they're just like okay, give me the ruler and you know, keep bagging up.
Ima:I mean it's intense.
Marc:He couldn't cry, so there wasn't any cries.
Ima:Yeah, no cries. He came out not breathing on his own and he needed help. So they resuscitated him, I think, three times and then transferred him over and got him intubated and everything. And I'm you know, I'm on the operating table, I'm awake, but I'm very loopy yeah, you're out of the emergency section.
Ima:So that means that they're just like giving me all the drugs to like get me in a place where I don't feel anything and I can kind of relax. Because I labored pretty much all day like for 10 hours, not knowing that it was going to end in C-section. I wasn't sure if I was going to have a vaginal birth or, and it kind of was just like a divine thing because after 10 hours my OB was like okay, so kind of been at, you know, you've been laboring all day. We need to kind of make some decisions on what are we doing here. And I finally was tired and I was like I need it. I'll take the epidural at this point because you know, think back about, like, what type of birth you want.
Ima:I wanted a water birth, I wanted to go, and so now I'm like, oh shoot, I have to do.
Ima:I didn't expect everything that I did not expect right, all the plans out the window and so when they gave his epidural, his heart rate uh, dropped and he became in distress. So then it was like almost like God was like, okay, we're going to get him out and save him, because I honestly believe that had I pushed him vaginally, it could have caused more stress for his body good for him. And I didn't see him until probably the next day. Yeah, I know that I saw a picture.
Ima:They took a picture of him and he was so beautiful and I was like oh wow, you guys wanted me to like not fight for him you know, because, you know because there was talk, you know?
Ima:oh yeah, there was talk, quality of life, talk that I was on bed rest on whether to save him or not, whether to give him a chance or not. You know, they were saying he was going to have a 20% chance of surviving if we, you know, went forward with giving birth and I was like, no, we're going to give him a chance. Like why wouldn't we give him a chance? You know, because, again for us, we hadn't really seen a 22 week baby. So you are thinking, do they have all their fingers and toes, do they have everything? And he had everything his hair, I mean, he had a head full of hair. And it was just like, wow, he's a baby.
Ima:You know and you guys actually wanted me to just give up on my son and I'm so glad that you know he and I came together during those times.
Amanda:Yeah.
Ima:Leading up to it. Our faith was tested. I feel like it was probably like like one of the biggest things that we had when the OBGYN was like.
Marc:You know, you guys are young, there's plenty of other opportunities.
Marc:You guys can have more children you know, he might live, but he won't be able to live and we mowed it over and I was kind of like on the side of like, wow, maybe he's right, like we can, you know, have more children. And maybe he's right, these, this, our son, might have a ton of challenges. Um, that would it be fair, but it's hard to say. Would it be fair but it's hard to say? Would it be fair to him? Because how does he know?
Todd:any different.
Ima:But these are things that we have to really talk about Prior to me giving birth. It's like, what does it look like? And do we, you know how do we proceed? And I remember I, just I was praying fervently and just, you know, you always hear like God didn't bring us to start and leave us. So for me, I'm like, why would he, you know, put us through all this, just for me to be like you know what? It's fine, Like, yeah, you're right, We'll try again. No, he put us in a position because he's going to do something and I really felt that I really believed that, yeah, he was gonna do something.
Ima:I was like I don't know what it's gonna look like, but whatever he does, like he's gonna give us the grace to get through it yeah, and did he ever?
Ima:you know it. Just, it was almost like a the outer body experience. You know, when you really think about it, because I think back and people always used to say, oh my gosh, you guys are so strong, like, how did you get through that? I wouldn't have been able to make it. And I'm like it really was God, because it's our weakness that makes them strong listen, you're literally, when you think about it.
Ima:you're leaving your baby every day with nurses and doctors, people you don't know Right, Like we could not stay there overnight. He was technically, he belonged to the hospital. Like, although we were his, we were his. I didn't even say we were his guardians, or like we weren't even like we weren't even.
Ima:Yeah, when you look at like paperwork and things of that nature, I remember what we were filling out to get his like birth certificate and his social security card like he technically belongs to to the hospital, like he didn't really belong to us until. So when you think about that, that's to break you down, that's to make you like just send you into a hotel span. So the peace of God was very present.
Ima:Yeah, just to be able to be calm and be able to leave the hospital and know, okay, be safe. These people are, you know, professionals. They're going to call us if anything goes wrong, or you know things that nature we, I'm telling you. I had to really rely on that.
Marc:It's a crazy dynamic when you think of, like you know, you spend so much time with your child and then you have to leave and it's like how do you like have a normal life outside of outside of that when you're at home, like I didn't enjoy that tv show, like you have a whole child that at any time you could get a call and be like sorry um sorry to give you this news.
Ima:Yeah, yeah we live, we really live life on the edge, in a way um yeah we both were working, so I was off for two months while he was in the mickey, and that was because I have to c-section they, I have to be all right recovering in general yeah, and then right at eight weeks my job was like hey girl, wow, and I was a carrier of insurance.
Ima:I have a million-dollar Mickey baby in the hospital. I have to go to work. And so you know, again, God's grace has really carried me through because it was a position where I had to be focused. You know, I had to be sharp. I was managing a team. I couldn't just sit in a corner and cry and feel sad. I had to keep it, keep going for Jackson, for Mark, and you know trust that he was going to be fine. They would call us throughout the day. You know I would call check in and things of that nature, but it was definitely hard, you know we were encouraging other parents during all of this.
Ima:Wow, you know he was taking the pictures and we would work on the captions and everything like that. And you know a lot of people were invested because again, to see a 22-weeker not only surviving but defying the odds of what the doctor said. Every day was a miracle. Yes, every single day that he lived and, you know, started, started breathing better and eating better, and just watch it like we literally watched him grow. Yes, um, it was a beautiful experience. Yeah, it's tough.
Amanda:I know it had to have been so traumatic, but then you see the hand of God move in that way it was just rolling through my head the whole time you guys have been talking.
Amanda:Jackson is a product of y'all's faith. You didn't waver to believe for him and to advocate for him and to do all the things to make sure that he became who he's going to be. The verse was going through my mind the whole time you're talking I will live and not die, and I'll declare the works of the Lord. That's a testimony over His life that he's going to live and not die. He's still declaring and he's still defying odds, I know, to this day. So y'all, that is wow.
Ima:Yeah, what were you going to say, marcus? I didn't mean to cut you off.
Marc:There were. There was a lot of experiences in the NICU that were just like a whole story in itself when it comes to like the care and the bedside manners one time. There's a photo maybe I'll share with Todd on the on the on the back end of the podcast. But there's a photo that we came in one day to see Jackson.
Marc:I don't know if I came by myself or if you came, but he was literally so they would have nurses like you know, working like on their shift would be assigned to him, so we would always know who the nurses were yeah, and they would usually have like two babies to one nurse yeah, so I'm not sure if it was me by myself or if we came together but it was you and I feel like you called me, I get there and inside his isolate, instead of him being centered in the little cushions and stuff. I mean he's like just almost like he went partying the night before he was laid out.
Marc:It wasn't in his best interest to be in that position right, I needed to be swallowed, very well what are you doing like?
Ima:I mean, he's literally almost he was like so they have like a cushion or like they took like blankets. You know the receiving blanket yeah they like shape around him. Yes, to kind of keep him cocooned, you know, like he needed to be snug because he was working on breathing. He was obviously like on I think he was on c-path, but you know you can't exert too much energy when you're trying to build your lungs and he needs to be contained. Yeah, he should have been like centered way, he's up here and hanging.
Ima:Legs are one way, head is the other, oh no. Who's in that way? What's going on? We don't want her, no more.
Amanda:Hey, come on. I mean, that's real, I mean yeah, I never want to.
Ima:I think it's that candle. Can you blow it out?
Marc:I'm like having like my nose.
Amanda:It's so bad, I'm so sorry it never happens. I have a candle right there.
Ima:I think it's irritating me, so I never want to be like, oh, our NICU journey was so beautiful and so great and just nothing crazy happened, because it did. But yes, two things can be true. You know, seeing your son outside the womb, growing and getting healthy and strong that that was a blessing for us. Like it made us stronger and it made us be able to tell other people. Like we did not crumble under the pressure.
Todd:In mid-pressure.
Ima:Which is where you know. You always hear like pastors say oh, this person went through this and lost their mind, but God kept you. Like that is our story, like we fell harder in love, we were more connected. It was like we are team us. You know it is us against the world. More connected. It was like we are team us, it is us against the world. I don't think that had we not gone through that journey that we would have had that connection. We always say ain't no breaking up. Thank you so much.
Marc:Maybe this can help some NICU parents in the future. One of the things off the top is because your child is so fragile that you have this thought in your mind that it's too easy for them to not do what they're supposed to do and just say, oh, he didn't make it because he wasn't supposed to make it, you know, in your eyes anyway. So I used to deal with that Like Like, how do you know that they're given their all with the cares?
Marc:Because technically, like I said, if something happens to him it's like well, I mean he already was against the odds anyway, so you're hoping that there's someone or that the staff is there to do the job to the best of their ability and not think about you know. Well, he's already against us anyway. So you know, but do all you can.
Ima:Right, that's one thing.
Marc:The second thing is what happened with that nurse? You remember her name. I'm not going to say her name. I thought I remember her name. It started with a J, don't put her on the list man.
Marc:Don't put her on the list. No, go ahead, don't put her on. But that was the second thing. And the third thing because there was two things overall in our nikki journey that just stand out always, and it was that one and it was one when there was a nurse and you remember that, um, we would do cares for jack, which is, you know, the bath, because there's only so much you can do, right, so you would do baths, ointment, the lotion, the changing the diaper.
Ima:You know right checking the temperature.
Marc:So they called it cares, right, and there was a nurse that we told was we were coming up there specifically to do his cares at this particular time, and then when we got there, this nurse had already did those things.
Amanda:Oh, and that's y'all's time.
Ima:You know I hadn't thought about that story in a long time, but it's every so every what?
Marc:two, three hours, Four? Oh, every four hours yeah.
Ima:So he was a little bit. He probably was about two, maybe three hours, four every four hours, yeah, so he was a little bit. He probably was up to two, maybe three months at that time. So he was. He was starting to become more like alert and more aware and really they wanted him to not be cut out really outside of those touch time because, the rest and grow and all these things. So it's like, with her doing that, now we can't. Now we got to wait another four hours before you can touch him.
Ima:Or you know, and it's especially depending on what kind of day he's having, like he would have days where it was like let's not, we can't hold him because it might make him a little bit too distressed, or he's not having a good day. You know what I mean. So that, was horrible.
Marc:If I remember specifically, we were coming from somewhere, so we specifically went somewhere and was like oh, we're going to make sure we go there. Right, be on time. Right. And we literally called up there and was like, hey, we're on our way and she did everything and we get there and he's just tucked in. I'm just like wait, and she had already did it.
Ima:He's like I already did it.
Marc:And the thing that, when we talk about the bedside manners, is that that's our only chance to touch our stomach and he took that away from us for whatever reason and we was upset. We complained about that.
Amanda:Yeah, I can almost guarantee you that there's other parents, that they're listening to that right now and they're like I've been right there and had the same experience, I can almost bet.
Todd:If you have that experience, comment below. If you're on YouTube, if you're watching this live, I say live. Sorry If you're watching the recording of this. And if you're on YouTube, if you're watching this live, I say live. Sorry, if you're watching the recording of this, hey and if you're a nurse, don't do that. Don't do that.
Marc:Yeah, because I think what it is is. You know, small things are so big.
Amanda:So oh yeah.
Marc:You know, something so small is wiping him with a warm towel and soap. It's a big thing, Especially you know, when we told you we were coming, we told you, we were coming, we had to deal with a lot of those types of things which made for.
Ima:I think it made us have to advocate harder for him. I think back now I'm like that's why I go so hard for Jackson, because people can be cruel even in their role. You know what I mean.
Ima:Not everyone can do what they're doing because they want to be doing it and so, yeah, that's why I say there are parts of our Nikki journey that were just very frustrating. Yeah, added extra stress and then, like you said, we're dealing with people who didn't necessarily believe what we believe. We were like declaring that he's a miracle, we're declaring God's grace over him and I'm praying, laying hands. And I'm praying, laying hands and they're just like so cold and so just science very science-based Matter of fact Matter of fact, yeah, we don't want to make it seem that it's everybody. Right, oh yeah.
Marc:There are some really great people that we still like to this day from his journey Right, people that we still like to this day from his journey right. But the reality is that you know your child is going to come in contact with a lot of different staff because there's shifts, there's people going vacation depending on how long jackson's there for four months yeah, so I mean it was. It's not like I'm just going to have the same nurse every day. There's different nurses. Some nurses are better than others.
Marc:Some nurses care more than others, Some they have an attachment, Some it's just a job.
Ima:And, like you said, we have literally a handful who are still in our lives to this day. They watch them grow on social media.
Ima:Love on them. They love on him. Yeah, one of the RTs, the respiratory therapist, he just every time I post Jackson he's like just beams of pride because he took care of our son. Yes, and he was just amazing. So, yeah, we did have some great people who cared for our boy and you know, can't thank them enough, but it is. It is hard and you know, once we got home we were like oh, my goodness Well.
Todd:God. God turned 20% into a hundred percent.
Ima:He sure did and more because he came home and it was just like he was just rocking it. They said he was going to be on oxygen at home for two years and I said before he got discharged, I was like I don't claim that, I was like don't put that on my son, yeah, and sure enough, he came off oxygen when he was nine months.
Ima:Wow, oh wow, and sure enough he came off oxygen when he was nine months, wow, like just a nose cannula and it was like a whiff of oxygen that would just keep his lungs, you know, open and everything. He was on medication and so we were like, by the time we left, we were like we're nurses yeah, yeah, you might as well go get a degree now we knew all of the care, all of how to administer medicine. We have cpr lessons and you know they trained us on what to do and we were like we got this and so you know, it just was very eye-opening.
Ima:um, it literally changed the trajectory, the trajectory of our life. You know, that's when I started the business Halos and Miracles, while I was on maternity leave with him, because I wanted something that expressed like I'm not just a mom, but like I'm a miracle mama. I have a miracle baby, and I wasn't really seeing anything that like spoke to me and my journey, and so I'm like, oh, what if I create it? And then, like, put it out there for other moms who want to not only just be like I'm a preemie mom. But you know, I have an answered prayer.
Ima:You know, literally every design that I've created has been because of our journey and it's been a blessing to so many other parents, because there's not a lot of people out there doing that.
Amanda:I'm going to have to check that out. I need some of that. Yes, for sure.
Todd:I'll tell you what it reminds me. Obviously, we didn't go through that rough of a story with Ezra, but at the same time, I would say one of the most beautiful things that has happened to date in my life is, you know, we waited. Amanda couldn't have children, she wasn't able at the time for about six years, and the Lord hit us with this miraculous pregnancy. And I'll never forget this promise, this promise, this promise. And Ezra he was premature as well. He wasn't in the NICU, but he was premature. He had a rough go at it. He actually went into distress as well.
Amanda:His first year of life. We were in and out of the hospital too Not NICU, but we nearly lost him several times in his first year.
Todd:I'll never forget holding him in my hands and this is why I asked y'all what was going through your mind, because I was having when I held Ezra for the first time. Similarly, I could hold him in my hand. His whole body could fit in my hand and I'll never forget holding him. Of course not with one hand, you know, I was footballing the kid, but I remember holding it for the first time and everybody through the through this, you know, through the uh blinds, on the other side of the window, they're all smiling and giving me thumbs up and all this and that. And I'm just looking at my life and I don't know. They didn't tell me if Amanda made it or not and she had a pretty rough C-section. Anyway, long story short, I remember saying Lord, this is a promise. And he corrected me. He said no, he said he is a delivered promise Because the Lord makes good on his word.
Amanda:Yeah, yeah.
Todd:And when. When he says something's going to happen, it's going to happen. And uh, regardless of what and and I say that to you guys with Jackson like, regardless of what man said, god had another plan. That's right yeah, so that's that's why I was asking really kind of what went through your heart, what went through your mind in that season.
Ima:I knew that God was going to perform a miracle, um, just because it had been prophesied while I was pregnant with him.
Ima:And I didn't know that. It was like I heard the message but I didn't know it was for me. I wasn't on bed rest but I was very sick. I had hyperemesis with Jackson and so, so sick. I mean so, so sick. And there was a pastor out of Nassau, Bahamas. He would come once a year to our church. He was good friends with our previous pastor and he was preaching about you're going to see an off-season miracle in the next nine months and I was like, oh, off-season miracle, okay, like yeah, yeah, and literally what I think it was like the next couple months.
Ima:I gave birth to Jackson, so I knew. When they were telling us the statistics and you know you need to choose and decide I was like I know God is going to perform a miracle. I don't know what it's going to really look like. Yeah, yeah, but you already know, yeah, I was like whatever you got to take us through to get there, we're going to get there and so every day we look at him like you are a miracle. You know, literally he is a miracle.
Ima:He is a miracle, come on I mean, he really is they all are, but especially him yeah, you know, literally the, the epitome of god, suspended. You know nature, time to do what he wanted to do, like it wasn't supposed. You know it wasn't supposed to look this way for, according to the doctors, but he had a different, a different plan. So, you know, just the first few years of his life were very blissful and just like I don't know.
Amanda:He made it like we have our son right. Yeah, yeah.
Ima:I was home with him. I was just able to, you know, nurture him and watch him grow and I think when he was so, he was in like speech therapy because we noticed, okay, he has a slight speech delay. Okay, we're like we expected there to be some delays.
Amanda:Sure.
Ima:So that wasn't like painful for me, it was just like, okay, this is the next part of our journey. We did speech therapy and I remember we had moved to Dallas for my husband's job at the time and I got him into because when they turn three husband's job at the time and I got him into because when they turn three you have to switch from like a regional center to school and for me I'm like well, he's been in in my care for three years. Like I'm not really ready for him to go to school, yeah.
Ima:But I'm like they were basically saying, if you want to continue services, as far as a speech and I think he was getting OT as well they were like he has to go. You know you have to go get an IEP and do all these things. And I remember other friends of mine you know their children in IEP so I kind of was a little familiar but I had never had experience with it. And so he got his first IEP when he was three and you know we got him enrolled in the school system and that was definitely a journey. Yeah, for sure.
Ima:Yeah, his whole school has been a crazy journey. But I will say that again, it was like I was thrown into on the job training because I didn't really have anyone to. I just knew how to advocate for him because of what we, you know, had just gone through. But I remember I had took him to. It was a daycare, it was like a private daycare children's safari yeah it was a daycare.
Ima:It was like a private daycare. Which one Children's Safari? Yeah, it was a private daycare and I was like it was a Christian school and I was like, yes, we found one.
Ima:And I remember I had a panic attack after I dropped him off Because literally my heart was my heart literally hurt. I mean, I was like this, I was crying. I was crying, my chest was tight Because it was my first time leaving him since he had been home from the NICU and I know that sounds crazy, but when you get through all that it's like that's your baby and you have to trust. But my spirit was a little bit as the days went on. It was still uneasy and I was like, okay, I know people talk about dropping their kids off at daycare and you know it should kind of feel as days go on.
Ima:It should feel a little bit like okay, we got this together and it was not the right place, and nothing happened to him, but there were things that I was observing about the atmosphere and I remember thinking this is a Christian daycare. I mean yelling at them.
Todd:Oh no.
Ima:Nope, he was at potty training at the time and he was soaked Like the first week that I picked him up, soaked through his diaper, like clothes, and I was like, yeah, this ain't the place, oh yeah, because he would cry and I thought, you know, only just crying for like separation, yeah, no, it was not that. So we put him, you know, we took them out and then we were able to put them in like the elementary school and they were kind of it was it was so many kids.
Ima:Yeah, it was like 30 kids in the pre-K or like it was like the pre-pre-K, and they were just like, oh, he's like running off and you know he's doing little bit, and for me I was just kind of like well, it wasn't for children with autism. It was like a general Right, yeah, right. So, for me. I'm like he's never been to school. You know, when I think back, there's like little things that you know, you kind of start piecing together.
Ima:You're red flags per se and I was like well, he's just a runner, like he's a kid. Like who's that? Yeah, kid's a runner. Yeah, and so they're kind of like we don't feel like this is like the place for him. Oh, because they were saying he was developmentally delayed, so they have to for insurance purposes. We were told that he needed a grander diagnosis, other than speech, and under the developmental, the global, you know, delay, it's kind of just could be any it could be a lot of things.
Ima:It's not one. So we rocked with that. The teacher quit. The teacher quit. She was like I can't do this. Yeah, she was like overwhelmed, she was like I can't do this. Yeah, she was like overwhelmed, so we started moving. We moved to another school which was like near our house, but it was a smaller classroom and I remember the psychologist saying I think we should get him tested for autism. And I was like wait a minute, Hold on.
Ima:Because he's only three him and I was like wait a minute, hold on. Yeah, he's only three. And from what I knew, it was like you don't really start testing until they're kind of a little bit older, unless they're like really strong signs that like yeah, but I was like he's developmentally delayed, so yeah, give the kid a chance. And for me, I'm very you know, very strong on. I'm a black mom and I know how the world can label.
Todd:Yeah, for sure.
Ima:Especially once they get, once they're young. Yeah, and I felt like I was the only, we were the only black family in, you know, the school. There was no one that looked like us. It felt it didn't feel like it was just in the best interest for jackson and I hope that the psychologist shouldn't have even, like, said that to us. That should have come from someone else. And so I was just rubbed the wrong way with that and I was like no, we have experiences like that early on.
Amanda:I mean just a pediatrician we never saw before and they're like do you have? You had him, you know, and we're like wait what he just has a speech delay.
Todd:My son does not have autism.
Amanda:Get that out of my face and it's painful too, because it's like no, I'm not, no, we don't.
Ima:we were in denial completely that that could even be the case too, so that was hard, but it's hard to hear that I think in that too you can still be, I guess, slightly in denial, but also want to give that child time to grow and maybe develop more, and and that's for me what I wanted it wasn't even like oh, don't necessarily, I wanted it to be the right.
Ima:Like you're, you're diagnosing him because this is actually what's going on, Not just because you're tired of putting in code 0, 1, 8. Right, and it's not, you know, because that's how it was put off like we need another code. No, we need another code.
Amanda:This is what he's developing to his legs, and so, once he got, out of.
Ima:There were so many things. God really carried us through Texas because it was challenging navigating the school system and people I felt like didn't really have his best interest at heart. You know we experienced a teacher hitting him and you know it was a whole thing. We didn't know, we didn't know, we didn't know about that.
Marc:Yeah, Thankfully there was another staff member that actually reported it and I remember my wife called me. I was at work. That was the last phone call I thought I was going to get. Yeah, the principal called. The principal called me and I called my bosses. Like I'm going home? Yeah, because I was at work.
Ima:And in this time we skipped over a big chapter we had our daughter.
Ima:We had our daughter in Texas and I remember it was right around Christmas and so I saw the teacher, you know, she brought him to me and it was like right before Christmas break and I remember I was on my way to Walmart I remember exactly to do a pickup of the kids' gifts and things like that, and the principal called me and said that an incident had occurred. I said an incident. Well, my son's in the back, I picked him up, he was fine, what could have happened? And he said the teacher slapped him and it was reported by another administrator and at that moment I had to call my husband and my mom because it was that moment I felt like I get when people do crazy things oh, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, there's, oh, yeah I was telling him.
Ima:I said I'm going to burn the school down. Yeah, because this woman brought my child to me. Didn't say anything, no one was saying anything and you know it was a whole thing Like CPS got involved. She was getting fired. We have to go in. It was crazy.
Marc:And it was on tape.
Amanda:What is so unfortunate is like what you guys are talking. We literally go around in the community and we talk with people all the time and this is not like an uncommon thing and our hearts are so broken over it, because it's like these are some of the most vulnerable babies on the planet and if we don't stand up for them, then who will? And and some of these babies don't have what we have, what we both have mommy and daddy come in to burn the school down at all in their life.
Ima:Yeah, yeah or they don't, because I talk to parents often who are like, afraid to speak up, or because this person's a teacher and it's like, no, you have to speak up for your child, and so I feel like so much character building went forward just even in that season. Uh, we moved back to california right before the pandemic happened, like literally, we moved fe, I think like 8th or something like that, and then the pandemic happened and you know, during that time he we had put him in a school. We were like, oh, this is going to be so great. We felt very good about this school.
Ima:I remember her I remember telling the teacher her name was Jodi about the former school one and the diagnosis with autism and she was like absolutely not. Like I'm going to work with him, I'm going to do all these things and we're going to give him time to grow to. You know, build up his skills and just see before he just you know, go do this. He went to school for two days and then they shut the school down.
Marc:Two days.
Ima:Yeah, I mean they shut the school down, but they closed because of COVID, and so it's like now he's going to do pre-K virtually. And so we did pre-K virtually and she was amazing, but I still feel like he got gypped because he would at least be going and they had such a good system in place. I think her son had autism and she just I was like this is going to be so great.
Ima:It just was, it was a challenge, and so you know, we're managing teaching him through virtual at home, still under the developmentally delayed, a delayed diagnosis, and we had another pediatrician, a new pediatrician, and we talked about just the support that he needed. You know, does he need additional support, does he need more intense support? Because he was developed, he was growing in, but he still was behind of where he needed to be for speech speech specifically. Yeah.
Ima:Because he wasn't really showing major signs of autism. Like he made eye contact, he knew his name. You know all of the things that you hear kind of like oh, they don't make eye contact, oh, they walk on their tippy toes, oh, if they don't like this or that, they line up toys. Yeah, that's the only thing that he did, but to me I still wasn't.
Amanda:Yeah, I mean like there's kids that do that, that do not have autism.
Ima:Right, and so for me it didn't look like what I was used to seeing. He wasn't I don't know, would you say the same or would you do? See Seth Now thinking back.
Marc:No, I always just thought it was just a delayed development.
Ima:Yeah, and we were just like he's so unique and this is so cool how he does little different things. And so his pediatrician was like you know, she broke it down to me and just said I think it was right before it was at his five-year-old checkup and she just kind of said what's the worst that could happen at this point? We just go through the steps. But she was a woman who looked like me. I felt empathy, I felt compassion.
Ima:It wasn't like being the worst, yeah, like yeah just just talking you know what I mean and it came at a time when I could really receive it, and so you know, if it's gonna give him more support, then why not, right? Yeah, what's, what's it going to hurt? Yeah, and so we went. She set us up. We went through the steps of going through the diagnosis for autism and it was different because it was the pandemic.
Amanda:Yeah. We were right there with y'all Our story's online.
Ima:It was more challenging than I'm sure like it is now. Yes, just pre-pandemic um just in like, give me appointments and you know, everyone has to wear masks and it was.
Ima:It was way different, but I think we got through the process pretty swiftly, so to speak. Yeah, um, at swiss I guess it's possible and it was not. It didn't feel as bad possible and it was not. It didn't feel as bad as I thought it was going to feel. Yeah, it was very patient and very understanding. There was one doctor who we had met with and I was like he was part of the diagnosis portion.
Ima:But he didn't. We didn't see him again. He was not patient, he was very just like yeah, he was saying little things like oh yeah, were you guys in Dallas. Y'all were in LA, yeah, we were like outside of LA, so we were in Chino which is like an hour outside of LA.
Amanda:But yeah, he was like you don't think he has autism, like yeah, people can be cold, people just see and they don't realize, like the emotional rollercoaster that you've been on and all of those things, and it's just, yeah, we have people say stuff like that to us too, and it it's like oh look, if they only we've had could only be, I would say we've had.
Todd:Now I would say we've had both sides of that, the the spectrum I'm sure you all have too, like it's obvious he has autism from one party and then the other party be like, don't say that that's wrong, blah, blah, blah.
Amanda:It's like being in the faith community I mean we had a lot of people around us. It was kind of a little bit the opposite of like we're feeling like there's something going on and we need to discover this more to get him the help that he needs. And in the faith community it's like you can't say that.
Amanda:You can't declare that or it's going to happen or all those kind of things, and so we were kind of facing the opposite and it's like, look like and we agree like one thing that Todd and I do is we've always prayed over Ezra that the only thing that would be left of autism is the gift, and we just believe in the fullness of everything God has over him. But accepting that diagnosis didn't change that.
Amanda:It just got him more of the resources that he needed, I think people in the faith community really struggle because, I mean, we don't want to put a label, we don't want to put a limitation on our kids because, we're believing. You know we're believing for them.
Ima:And so yeah, no, that's true, yeah. You don't want to limit them, but you also want to give them what they need. Yeah, and, like you said, in the faith community, it's like I've seen it recently, especially like on social media oh, let's crank the autism away.
Todd:and it's like, yeah oh yeah, let's pump the brakes a second here, because there's some awesome stuff about autism.
Ima:It's not a curse, or it doesn't have to be, it could be a gift. You know, um, and you're right. I do remember encountering um. It was. It was around. I think he was in first grade. I had to take him. We were trying to get him in another like regional center for some aba support and that was the day he hurt his arm and I put him in that um that meeting and the guy was like this report.
Ima:He was reading the autism diagnosis. He was like between me and you, I don't think he has autism. He's like this. He's like this report is not it's wrong and so then I was like who does he?
Todd:not, I'm like, I'm just like I don't know.
Ima:I'm like if he, if he needs to have it on this paper to get what he needs, because he was trying to like reverse the whole thing and he wrote in his report and turned it into the regional center saying that he didn't think that Jackson had autism and so they denied us because they're like well, this is our guy, our regional.
Ima:You know, he was a referral and they went with what he said. And I said my son's pediatrician, an OT, a psychologist and a speech therapist, who all came together and said he has autism, and now this one guy is saying he doesn't think and so now he's not going to get the regional support that he needed. Oh no.
Amanda:And it's. It's such a tricky thing because they're going. I mean there's no test they can run that says yes.
Todd:Definitively anything.
Amanda:They're going off behaviors and different things and that is such a difficult thing I really feel like, and I think, there's a lot of people getting diagnosed today that are so high functioning. It's like you know what do you need a diagnosis for? But then, at the same time, like for them, it lets them know. Okay, that's why I have these little quirks. That explains a lot.
Todd:I would say this, like to the parent that's watching this who may be in the process of a diagnosis or maybe you're in denial and you don't want to even go down the road of having a diagnosis done medically. The road of having a diagnosis done medically it's just like Ema said it opens up doors to services that your child would not get otherwise, and to me I think that has made a world of difference for our son and it sounds like for Jackson as well. It's made his life that much better. It's a struggle getting to the appointments and making this happen and that happen and following this and that, but at the end of the day our son can tell me Daddy, I love you. I wouldn't say that's wholly based off services. I mean we prayed a lot and the Lord has really brought them a long way, but at the same time those services have helped. So I want to encourage a parent going through that Like, just know, it's not a bad thing, it's not a death sentence and it does.
Ima:I think that's the stigma behind it, is that people think your life is over. Because I remember once we officially got the diagnosis, his developmental pediatrician also said hey, jackson is still who Jackson is before I wrote this paper. That's right Like he didn't. Jackson didn't change, right, just the way that we have to parent and provide support and things. That's the only thing that's changing. But Jackson is still who Jackson is before you wrote this on the paper, or not? Right? That helps me and I think that can help another person. I'll always tell parents that is your child is still your child.
Ima:That's right, you know they are who they are. A piece of paper is not going to change or dictate who they are. So for us, like Jackson has autism, but autism doesn't have him like come on. I'm stealing that it's a part of him, but right at the core of who jackson is like, he's a happy kid, he's a loving he's a sensory kid he loves.
Amanda:I mean so he's sensory seeking, yeah we got to see him doing his flips on our video oh yeah, that was so fun and he's very engaging and I could see why that would be confusing, because I feel like he's definitely, if he him being on the spectrum, he's definitely a high functioning kid like he yeah, he does he made good eye contact I was like what the hell?
Ima:you, he made good eye contact.
Amanda:I was like wow.
Ima:He said yes, yeah, do you want to do this? No, I don't, or yes, mommy, daddy where you going. His speech is amazing. I know that there are some parents who feel their kind of way about therapy. It works. I often tell parents it's a marathon, it's not a sprint. Jackson has been in heat since he was 18 months old 18 months, he's nine and a half, so it has been a journey and we work with him, obviously, at home, we talk to him all of the things.
Todd:But prompting and all that yeah, we've been at this.
Ima:It didn't just happen overnight, like when I hear things that he's eating and trying. I'm like you didn't just start this. Yes, yeah, it's been a.
Todd:It's been a progressive situation, you know that's something that parents who may not who are watching this, maybe families who aren't affected by autism, especially with children like Ezra, who is more on the profound side of having autism profound autism, Like it's something that we work with. It doesn't stop, Like it doesn't stop you know, at all, and so it's more than a program.
Ima:When you say profound, what do you mean?
Todd:Profound meaning when he was diagnosed.
Amanda:there were levels and he was diagnosed level three, which is the most severe.
Todd:Severe.
Amanda:Which he was nonverbal until he was four and a half, and now he talks, yeah, yeah, he never stops talking, he talks, he never stops talking.
Todd:Profound meaning he, in my terms anyway that he exhibits more severe symptoms Like the symptoms that he does have are on the more severe side as far as neurodiversity goes. Okay, yeah, if that makes sense. That's probably not the official term.
Amanda:I'm not going to lie to you, but he doesn't even come close to some of these babies who are. I mean, they have a feeding tube and so many you know what I mean. There's such a vast spectrum. He won't speak. Well, oh he is. He's been talking about your kids ever since he met them.
Todd:This morning he was like want to talk to Jackson and Cameron. Yeah.
Amanda:He remembers their names.
Todd:He'll never forget y'all. He loves y'all already.
Ima:I don't even know what level Jackson is. I don't feel like they.
Amanda:They change it every time it turns around.
Todd:The DSM changes every time it turns around.
Ima:It's a wide spectrum right.
Todd:Yeah, for sure. At the end of the day, like we said and like you said, it's you know, it's really about getting them the supports they need more than anything. And. I say that too, even for me, giving me the supports and the tools to know how to help my son and similarly, y'all's story.
Amanda:Yeah, we want him to grow up and thrive and be as independent as you can be.
Todd:I don't want to stop the conversation on autism whatsoever, but I do want to shift gears a little bit. Having your other child how has that changed Jackson's life?
Ima:How has that changed?
Todd:y'all's life having her in the story he's like let's shift gears back then no, she's amazing yeah she's amazing, she um.
Ima:So, prior to having her, um, I think jackson was like two and a half and we I kind of had that urge of like prior to that. Once he was born, I was like, oh no, we're not doing this Right. No, no, no, no, no, no. No.
Ima:Yeah, you know the trauma of it all. Yes, not knowing if we're going to. You know we're going to have another preemie or whatnot, and but God, I felt like God put it on my heart and I'm like you know he never just put something on your heart. To just put it on your heart, like it means something, yep.
Ima:So it was a dream and I was just like you should try again. And um, tried and got pregnant and I had a miscarriage, which was totally, just unexpected, obviously, and just heartbreaking, because you know, you went from you know the trauma to being like, oh yeah, let's do this again. And then you do it again. It's like, okay, wasn't expecting that and we had just moved away.
Ima:Yeah, we were in Dallas for his other job and so we went through that and I was like, okay, I don't think we're going to do this again. And I had friends who were, you know, kind of encouraging us and just saying, give yourself a little time. Found an incredible OB and you know, she like did a whole workup on me because I was starting to think like is what happened with Jackson? Like Did it?
Todd:damage her body in ways?
Ima:Yeah in ways or like can I not carry baby full-time? And, um, you know, she checked me and she's like you're healthy. I don't see why you can't carry a baby the full time. I'm gonna do what I can help you carry a baby the full term. And so we waited what? How many months? Was it like? Three months maybe, I think before what before we tried again. Okay, I think it was like three two or three.
Ima:Yeah, I think it might have been three yeah, and and I got pregnant and um, the ob was like we're gonna do all the medicine, all the medicine, the you know progesterone, everything.
Ima:So yeah, yeah and it and she did you know, and so I was able to carry cameron until 30, 38 weeks yeah, 38 weeks yeah, I had a lot of um, pretty much like my pregnancy was like live at the ob because she was like checking on me every once a week. I went every week for, you know, for the whole pregnancy whether it was getting a shot, checking my cervix, you know, giving me an ultrasound, and so it was such a blessing. It was definitely a faith walk carrying her because, you know, I didn't know, I just had faith that okay, lord, it's my rainbow baby and you blessed me with her, so it's going to be okay. And she it was a beautiful delivery, like redemption.
Amanda:Yeah.
Ima:You know, because it was such a peaceful delivery, because it was scheduled and we got to see her right away, I think you helped. Yeah, I think you helped. Yeah, I think you helped? I don't think I wait no, no, I don't know I thought you did no, I think, or they brought her over to us because you know you have like a little yeah that's right.
Todd:Yeah, yes, you did.
Ima:They took a picture. Yeah, yeah, you were holding her and I'm like laid out on the thing, but we got to do skin to skin, which was different, because with Jackson, I didn't hold Jackson I took Jackson for 28 days, so being able to be in recovery. They brought her to me and laid her on my chest. We did skin to skin. I got to nurse her right away.
Ima:It just was like a whole different night and day, it sounds like yeah, and so just seeing how jackson started reacting to her as a baby, like they were really, I think, the first time when we brought her home, he like, he, like, he was like yeah, like who is this? You know, hang on. Oh, he asked the holder and then he like tried to get up and I was like wait, oh yeah, but it was just beautiful to see. Um, I think that's when he started getting closer to you when she was born, because she, you know, she needed me. Yes, in a different way. When I was pregnant with her, I was like you know, sick and everything like that. So that's kind of changed.
Amanda:But they started getting close.
Ima:I think they started getting close right and they were like three. Oh no, he was no he turned four.
Marc:I mean I think they've always been close yeah.
Ima:Yeah. Just never yeah. But I think with her she kind of helps him. Yeah, Especially now as they get older. I think her presence, like, has helped him talk more.
Todd:Yeah, socialize yes.
Ima:Keeps him on his toes, yeah.
Marc:Her big emotions might be because she's seen him have big emotions. Oh yeah, I think we're dealing with some of that right now. How do I deal?
Amanda:with this. He thinks he's supposed to respond the way that, just as our son thinks he's supposed to respond, the way that Ezra does to everything. I'm like I don't know if I can handle this, because you know full well.
Ima:Sometimes he does have to get your emotions. Yeah, you know it is tricky to navigate, because you want her to feel safe and be able to express herself, but also like, okay, just because he's responding like that, you don't have to respond like that and she's.
Amanda:You know he gets attention. You know he gets. You know, mommy and daddy rush over when something like that happens. I can totally relate to that yeah.
Ima:So we're I think she started that probably in the last like year or so of just like bigger emotions and so something that for us, like I've tried to do, and even Mark, like daddy, will you tell her like we'll do, daddy, daughter date.
Todd:Yeah, that's cool.
Ima:Daddy, daddy, daughter date. Yeah, that's cool. Daddy, daddy, daughter date. I try to do like little things with her. Yes, that's so important, just to show her like you know you're just as important because I think sometimes the siblings of a child with special needs get kind of lost in the background. And yeah. And I never want her to feel like she's forgotten or like you know, we're currently in that journey.
Todd:Yeah, we are. We're in the same path.
Amanda:you know that we don't want to leave our other justice, oh and his whole life around revolves around Ezra's therapies and all the things we do to be the best. But I want him to like have those special things for himself. Well, you know there's this thing.
Todd:That's a I said it in another episode because I saw it on another podcast but there's a scientific thing. It's called the glass child syndrome, and the glass child syndrome is where a sibling to a child who's going through some type of medical condition or disability, whatever a hard journey we'll just put it that way that the sibling feels like they are see-through, like they're transparent because, all the attention is given, not not out of not out of choice either, but that they all the attention has to be given.
Todd:You maybe a child's in the hospital all the time and the sibling just feels like, well, you know, I'm just a class child.
Ima:Yeah.
Todd:And it's it's a form of depression. It legitimately is.
Ima:Yeah.
Todd:And so like we.
Amanda:I think you guys, though, are so on the right track of, like you know, making her, and I mean, I think that comes natural to make them feel wanted and welcome, but it's like we have to try a little harder to make sure I think we do overcompensate sometimes for her, with her being a girl and the baby Like if she's our last
Ima:baby and so she has definitely been more spoiled, but a lot of times like Jackson. You know I'm sure you guys go through fixations with everybody, oh yeah it's become a thing where if he gets something, then she wants something as you've seen, it's been robots for us, so we are broke we're
Ima:we're broke right now oh man yeah so it's balancing that and just you know, knowing, like, okay, if this is so something that we started doing with 2021, like taking a trip for jackson's birthday because it's in the summer so he doesn't get like the the school birthday celebration right, and so we always told like you get to benefit too, because we're going, you know, on the trip yeah, you get to go on the trip and so it's become like a family thing, but it's something that you know we like if he gets a present first.
Ima:I remember we went to hawaii for in 2021 for his birthday and she was like I want the toys too. Oh yeah, you know, in Hawaii, I think at the time was Moana. Moana was the first one it was like so big, and so he wanted the Moana toys and she got a Moana doll and at first I was like what's?
Ima:his birthday, but I'm like he wants to feel special too. So my parents are very big on like if one kid gets something, the other kid, even if it's their birthday aww, that's so good. Yeah, even if it's just like a small little gift card, just so that the other one doesn't feel left out. Justin, he can kind of care less, but he's gonna to be like you guys, take it. Where's my cake?
Todd:It's the same exact dynamic for us.
Amanda:How do the robots and Justice's mind belong to him as we discover his birthday.
Ima:It's definitely interesting, but it's beautiful to see. I really, like I said, I feel like she kind of helps him and pushes him. She's very helpful. She's really the perfect sibling for him. She gets it, she understands, and you know we try to shield her from certain things as much as possible, but she's very intuitive, she's very inquisitive and she's really the greatest sister for Jackson. I really think so. She's very inquisitive and she just she's really the greatest sister for Jackson. I really think so.
Amanda:That's amazing and naturally like being a girl, that that nurturing aspect that we're just born with as women.
Ima:Sometimes, she's like I'm the big sister, I'm like you're the little sister. She's like she reminds me of me and my, my brother. When we were little. I would fight on his behalf or be like oh, you did this to my brother, I'm going to get you. And I'm five years younger. She's like if anybody says something to Jackson, I'm going to get them.
Amanda:I love that she has his back.
Ima:It's definitely been a dynamic right.
Marc:They still fight over things. That's just been a shifting dynamic. Right, they still be fighting.
Ima:Yeah, they still fight over things yeah.
Todd:They're his best friends and worst enemies.
Amanda:That's the way it is. Yeah, yeah.
Ima:Like their current struggle is Jackson. I don't see it around here, but he has a number grid, so it's like one to 100. Uh-huh, and she's in her counting era, he's in his counting era, he's in his counting era and it's his. But she's like I want to count to 100 and I'm like we have so many other like things.
Amanda:Why do y'all have to pick the one thing right and it?
Ima:really is, and he's like it's mine, and sometimes I'm like, yes, jackson'd love to hear you, you know, hearing him advocate for himself. Vocalize yes, I'm like you, tell her.
Todd:Jackson yeah, go count With us. It'd be with Justice. What would it be? Go count the toys on the floor. Instead Count to 100. Oh my goodness, I can pick them up while you're at it, all the toys.
Speaker 4:No, I'm kidding, I can pick them up while you're at it All the toys.
Todd:No, I'm kidding.
Amanda:No, but it's that one thing that they're hyper-excited on, that the sibling always wants yeah, and it's the same way.
Todd:They can't let one of the other have it.
Ima:They have to be on the same plane Even if they're not playing with it. So it's a journey. They're a blessing, but they're also like whoo sometimes. Yes, they, they. They're a blessing, but they're also like whoo sometimes.
Amanda:Yes, yeah, we feel that. We feel that 100%, we all are tired, yeah, yeah.
Todd:No sleep ever. Yeah, it's okay.
Ima:I know.
Todd:But uh, I was going to ask y'all how is, how is how? Is having them both? Has it changed your relationship with God? Has it changed your relationship with God? Has it made it? I mean, I know it's obviously made your relationship deeper with Him, but has there been any specific ways or any kind of things that come to mind right now of how having them both and seeing them interact, like if there's any way that it's deepened your relationship with God and in one another, like with each other.
Marc:I think I will say I'm constantly, always what it's done for me is it's really like, just put in perspective of just like the legacy of like really appreciating their lives together, especially like getting older, like I'm 43. Like just in general, mainly with the kids, is just just like um, like I'm not gonna be here forever and every moment I can spend with them or experience I can get with them is like something that they're going to be able to take with them, or tell their kids about or wow, just um it's.
Marc:It's much different, like I would say. When she first was born I never really thought about oh experiences, you know, but now I'm just looking at it Like wow.
Marc:Like I told her I made a joke the other day and I was like, I was like, yeah, but I think 40 years I said you're going to be changing my diaper. Don't say that. Yeah, I'm like like, um, I could just see, like I appreciate, just how you could tell like how much she loves me. Like if I'm sick, yeah, she cares. You know, yeah, just how they just gravitate towards some dead. I mean, there's times when, like literally, he's on one arm, she's on this arm and we're just and mom's just like doing something else and they're fighting over who to hold with arms.
Amanda:Wow, you kids really love me, I feel like that's such God's design for the family and for the father to be present and there and active in their life and leaving that legacy. I feel like that's a miracle in itself. In the day and age we live in, there's so many distractions and people are so busy you know and to be able to really spend that quality time.
Todd:I would say this too, like you know, two things. Number one mankind tends to believe that the most important commodity to humans is money.
Todd:But the truth is it's time, because there have been people who have spent the last of their million dollars of fortunes to buy one more second, but couldn't do it, and so what it comes down to is time, and if there's one thing that, when we're dead and gone, that we leave behind, it's a legacy, that's it, and so how we spend our time determines what our legacy will be, and just those moments that may seem insignificant in the day-to-day, where we're spending time with our kids, like you said, and wanting each arm, like you know, some people might look at that in their own hearts, you know, in that situation is well, you know, this is just me spending time with my kids. What they don't see is just what you're seeing yourself which is.
Todd:It's creating a legacy.
Amanda:It is. And I mean, as he was talking, I just felt the love of the father. I mean, you're a father and you are experiencing the way he loves you. Absolutely, when you get to love your kids and I don't know that messes with me.
Todd:Yeah, well, and the other thing too. Not only that, but I mean time and a legacy, but also, you know, a mother's. A child naturally wants to love a mother. A child naturally wants to love a father. But a lot of times I put it this way to Amanda, it's different A love a child naturally loves a mother. Yeah, a father has to earn that.
Amanda:Yeah, yeah.
Todd:The father has to earn that the father has to earn that she was not like that when she was young.
Ima:She was five when he was older. Aww I was like that's because I exclusively was breastfeeding her. So our bond was much different. It was the first four months, but she, you know, started getting more comfortable. And I think too, sometimes girls are like scared of these big guys, like my face talking about. So, yeah, I think I think that God, I see God's love, I see God's love through our kids, yeah, so for me like often it's like a blessing.
Ima:You know it heals my inner child, yeah, and just it's a beautiful thing to see. And I think we still have those moments where we're like keep it with these kids, like we're the adults, like we're the parents, like no, we even think about the fact that we had kids together, Like yeah but we had kids.
Todd:Yeah, it's like we were just kids ourself.
Ima:I know, I still call my mom for things. She's still, like you know, know I still call my mom for things. She's still, like you know, very integral in our lives and so I'm I just marveled at, like you know, um, I remember when we did the podcast, uh, tab of this podcast and after we were done, I think it shifted some things for us, even with Jackson, because, knowing, like we are not, we knew we were responsible for him.
Amanda:Yeah, but just like the assignment. Yeah.
Ima:Come on, it makes you feel differently. It does Because you know, I said something to him yesterday. I was like you know, I try to be very gentle and easy with him a lot of times because we don't know what he's facing out in the world after. Or, you know, there's a little boy in his class, I think, who has like some yelling issues like you know he's like and Jackson.
Ima:When he gets home he's just like I just want to go home, like yeah, and I'm like. I look at that and it makes me parent him like from a different lens sometimes, like just being gentle and knowing like God didn't have to give me this, this child, as my, in my care. You know to care for and to love and nurture and grow.
Ima:So I look at it as like I have to treat it kind of like all of the blessings that God gives us. You know we have to be good stewards over it and I'm like I never want to feel like I'm not stewarding my kids. Well, and I remember, like I said, when Tabitha broke us down I was like, okay, let me snap back into life. You know it's hard some days, but God's going to give us the grace to do it and it's easy to get in an aggravated cycle, or just like oh, this is too much.
Amanda:And it's those wake-up calls and those reminders where God always pulls us back and is like dude, you're trying to do that by yourself, like I can help you. Like my grace is sufficient.
Todd:Like for real, though.
Amanda:For sure I can help you. My grace is sufficient. For real, though.
Todd:For sure. I'm reminded too of two things Children with special needs, to me, is the closest thing that we'll ever see to Jesus on planet. Earth. This is just my opinion. And here's why Because in Matthew 18, 5, jesus is talking to I believe it's his disciples and they're arguing over why this child is hanging around Jesus, and he picks him up and he says it's Matthew 18, 5,. He says anyone who cares after this little one on my behalf is caring for me.
Todd:That's red letters. And so when he said that, it hit me like a ton of bricks when I was thinking about raising my child and the way that I care for them and the time I spend with them, and then it brought it to a deeper dimension. I'm sorry I'm talking too much about it, but a deeper dimension of that is long-suffering where.
Todd:Philippians 3.10,. Paul is speaking and he says we rejoice in the power of his resurrection. Talking about Jesus, and I believe we as Christians generally we get that and the fellowship of his sufferings to be conformed to his death, to me, long suffering with a Uh-oh I think we lost y'all's video there. We go.
Todd:To me, walking with someone through the hardest moments in life creates a resilience and a strength, and it creates a wind behind your sails and it creates to me a form of crying out to God that cannot be attained any other way than through the path of suffering, and it's a beautiful sound. It is.
Amanda:I mean, you look at all the miracles in the Bible and you see the miraculous power of God, but you didn't see the process. You didn't see what that blind person lived through before he opened their eyes and I think, being firsthand witnesses to that and being in that process raising a child and believing for them. I loved what you said about how it made y'all stronger, because for so many people like the statistics, if you look at the statistics it pushes them apart and it's like and I knew it was like a conscious decision I'm going to push into you, I am going to hang on to you, we're going to hang on to each other. We're going to hang on to God for dear life.
Todd:I got bruises on my arms.
Amanda:Yeah, to make it through it, and I love that y'all shared literally your whole journey and how, like God brought y'all together, because, I mean, had y'all's process not looked like that? Like you may not have been able to, he knew what was coming, right. You know, it didn't catch him off guard. He knew, and so man. I'm just. I'm so encouraged hearing y'all.
Ima:Yeah. When you think about all of it. It's like he knew, so he. The timing of it all is just like. I just I often say I don't. It's not always easy to do with God, but we we joke and we're like I don't know what people do without him, because even doing it with him you do go through long stuff you go through hardship, you do go through doubt and all those things. So imagine a life without him. You would be like what did they say? Oblivious.
Todd:You would just be oblivious to the real world.
Ima:Exactly so. We're, yeah, we're living it and we're thriving in it and I I think that's the big. The big takeaway is like people seeing like you can go through these things but still be, you know, happy and joyful and positive and faith-filled. You don't have to, it doesn't have to be like the worst thing in your life.
Amanda:No.
Todd:Contrary, it's the biggest blessing you could ever have Exactly, I think so. You know. Well, with that being said, I mean, what would you, marcus, what would you tell dads out there who may be going through the process? Maybe they're in denial? You know, in that rough in the rut, you know I'm talking about. Yeah.
Marc:You know, honestly, I feel like, as men, we have a responsibility to to be strong, but also, um, you know, seek support at the same time, um, I think, uh, looking back, I probably could have um seek support more. Um, just cause I know like I didn't see like any support, I kind of just do it on your own as I go.
Marc:But I think, even if you don't necessarily feel like you need help, it's always good to have to just be in a community of people, male or female, that can, you know, just be be support for you if you ever need it, if you ever need it. I do think that, especially with moms, I think, as if you're still with the mom, or even if you're not, just to be very supportive and understanding, have compassion and grace, because I could only imagine, like, as a mom, like she said, like there's mom guilt, you know, being able to support, you know, the mother of your child with that understanding it, because we can't have that same guilt because the baby didn't form inside of us there's a different type of emotion that I think you do have to have some respect for and just appreciation for and just understanding.
Marc:So I would think I think that's something I would encourage other men to just kind of tap into, just uh, being more understanding and just being real supportive. I think support is.
Marc:Yeah, for sure you can. You can't give anything else. Just be there Understanding to. You know what's going on, like I said, and if you need that support for yourself, just um, you know, just you know, try to gather that community. If you ever need that support, that's so good, because I know I gather that support, like, even like guys like you, todd, like I didn't have no one that I could reach out to and you know For sure, man, someone that could relate to what the you know.
Marc:So I think, that's the advice I would offer to any of the fellows out there.
Ima:Yeah, ask for help. Yeah, for sure.
Todd:And it sounds like there's an undertone, too, that, like being meek doesn't mean being weak, Right? Like you can be strong and have restraint, yeah and have restraint. And being strong and having restraint can look like reaching out to somebody and being like look, dude, I'm strong, but I'm having a hard time.
Ima:It's a sign of strength, really it is.
Amanda:Absolutely it is, it's a cover-up when you just put it on all the time. It's a cover-up? Yeah for sure.
Todd:It's just adding pressure to that bottle. It's got a lid on it.
Amanda:Well, y'all I know we need to wrap it up and everything, but I just wanted to give y'all a chance, if there's anything that you didn't get, to say that you really want to before we close it out.
Ima:Yeah, I would just say to piggyback, support, support your, your partner, um for sure, you know, we would take turns on when I was, if I I was like, okay, today's gonna be my day to you know, feel bad or to have the emotions and I need you to cover me, and then then, you know, switch off, I'm gonna cover you. But just remember you're on the same team. Yeah, that's a big one. You have to work towards the same goal because if you take your eyes off and think like you're doing this and that, like it doesn't work like that, especially when you're married, you're one, yeah. So I would say, like you said, lean into each other, ask for help, ask for support, know that you're not alone and, um, share. You know, sharing for us has opened up so many doors, like even meeting you guys, like just us sharing our journey and knowing that there's other people out there who are going through the same thing.
Ima:it helps you feel less alone yeah, so yeah, I just I think I've said a lot and just just knowing that your journey is not a curse like it's a blessing. God is faithful, even in the heart, you know.
Amanda:For the glory of God to be revealed.
Todd:That's what he said when they asked why is this baby blind?
Amanda:For the glory of God to be revealed, and that's what we get to witness in this journey.
Todd:We get to see the glory of God revealed in our children. Oh man, I can be more blessed than to have a front row seat to it.
Amanda:Yes.
Todd:I do want to plug y'all's stuff. We said we were going to do it.
Amanda:Yeah, let's make sure we do that.
Todd:We're going to actually put their social media stuff down in the bottom of this. We'll put links to everything. But for those of you who don't know, Ima has a book out. Yes, I forgot to say that, if it's real quick, if it's all right, I'd just like for you to share a little bit about it.
Ima:Yeah. So the book is called Saving my Son 119 Days of Miracles Behind the NICU Doors, and it really just details our journey of our NICU. You know, say what I learned. It's packed with inspiration, encouragement. I think that whether you're in that space of having a premature baby or not, I think that you can get something out of our story because it's faith-filled. So everything that we went through is just showing how good God is, and I think it's a testimony. Yeah, for sure. It's available on Amazon.
Marc:I was going to ask you.
Ima:Yeah, it's on Amazon. It's amazing, my little book Baby. And then I also have a clothing line, clothing and accessories, called Halos and Miracles, and I create, you know, signs and shirts and onesies and sweaters, and I'm wearing one now. It says Dope Mama. I love that.
Amanda:Oh, my goodness Love it.
Ima:But yeah, it's such a it's an amazing small business where you can, you know, shop for yourself, or even those who are believing for God to perform a miracle in their own life.
Amanda:Yeah, that's a good reminder.
Todd:Y'all need to go, support, support them. And yes, marcus, too.
Marc:I don't have any books, not yet.
Amanda:That's right, not yet, that's right, not yet.
Marc:I own a business called Brand F Clothing. It is Brand F Clothing on Instagram and most socials, brand F Clothing and what we specialize in is marriage apparel for the wives, brides, husbands and kianses, and all those good things.
Marc:I love it, people do ask because, I say, oh, I got a clothing line, kianses and all those good things. I love it. People do ask, like I say, oh, I got a clothing line, what do you do? Marriage apparel, marriage apparel. And I always say you know, like the little wifey shirts you see on Etsy, and it's just even an idea of what I do, but I'll tell people that what you'll see on Etsy is we do that on steroids, so we do that on steroids. Yeah, so we try to be cheaper, creative, and I think that's what the customers appreciate, is that?
Amanda:Yeah, the quality right and the cool back and forth.
Marc:The wow factor the conversation starting.
Todd:I'm going to get Amanda some slides. I saw the slides.
Marc:Oh yeah, we got the slides. Oh yeah, we got the slides. But I think it's just the, the designs, the colors, the types of things that, yeah, I mean we've had purses, wallets, and imagine just putting marriage apparel spins into those things yeah yeah, I think what people do like about what we're doing is just the creativity. Yes, of course. Who doesn't love going out for run errands or to an event and have someone say yo, I love that shirt you have?
Ima:Yeah, the motto is love out loud. So, it's not just wearing a shirt that says Mrs, but it's you know, I'm in love with him, like you're showing your love for your spouse out loud.
Todd:Which is a big deal for families with special needs.
Amanda:And for families in general. And I just I love that you guys shared your love story and you shared, like you shared, your journey and I can see, like the heart behind, why you would have those businesses and why you know you wrote that book Like these are the things that are near and dear to your heart, and I can feel that so much.
Todd:I love it. Yeah, y'all go spend all your Christmas money on their stuff. Go buy some gifts, have a good gift.
Marc:Guys, I'm sure you'll like what you see, I know they will.
Todd:I've been there already. I'm like man, I'm getting some stuff off this website.
Amanda:Tal's already like looking to get me some stuff.
Todd:I'm like okay, thank y'all so much for your time thank you for having me on here well, I guess we're gonna close it out right. Well, guys, this was our interview with Mark and Ima, and we just had such an awesome time with them.
Amanda:Yes, and I hope you guys enjoy it.
Todd:Yeah, blesses you please and please share likes. Please subscribe, share. Subscribe to their channels yeah everything. So, uh, without further ado, we're not an island podcast. I'm'm Todd.
Amanda:I'm Amanda.
Todd:All right.
Amanda:Peace. Thank you, you got it.
